Burner grate gets saturated

[didier]

Here's what is going on.
I need to clean the burner grate after one day because it gets saturated with half burned pellets.
using chip version 4.99
Yess, i have draft stabilizer, yess i tried to find the best configuration, blower speed, pellets feed...
I tried everything.

Cleaning has been set to every 5 minutes, for 6 seconds at 50% speed....

what is going on, grate has been cleaned all the air holes are open, burner has been taken off and airholes have been cleaned.

Sure thing to me is, if I knew I had to work on this system every day, cleaning, tuning and other shit, I would not have bought this system.

I am getting nervous, I need to do everything myself because of lack of knowledge from the installation guy and this is not fair.
Another few months and i will get the damn thing out of my house.

  greetings from A not so happy scotte woody burner owner user

[didier]

One more thing, it all went good as long the burner runs at 100%.
It has been set to a 10% modulation, I think the pellet feeds is to high when the burner goes into modulation.
When it goes into middle, i guess the air is not enough compared to feed wich gives the unburned pellets on the grate.
There is no possibility to change the pellet feeds for middle, there only possibility for LOW and HIGH so what to do, If i give more fanspeed for middle, it becomes almost the same as in high, so where is the difference then.....

I see they sell a compressor for cleaning the grate, probably this came out for a good know reason....
Unfortenatly it is only working for the 6.0 version, so I need to buy another controller.....the fucking burner is only 6 months old and i should invest another load of money into it.

How is al of this possible, i don't understand,
People are good in selling things but not in giving service after sales, that's how I look at it.

[Frank_rasmussen]

Have you used the method surgested on page 3 of the manual ('Setting by weight') ?

I understand that you have turned 'Auto combustion' to 'No' and started adjusting 'Man. combustion' by 'Pellets low' and 'Pellets high'. Your version wants you to adjust the amount of pellets and not the amount of air (outside ignition and cleaning cycle).

Black unburned pellets and white ash from the burner grate (not ashes from the cooling surfaces) normal means to few pellets. To few pellets can also give you more cinders (=hard ashes) in the burner grate.

Too much air in the cleaning cycle could have the same effect. But your numbers for the cleaning cycle seems normal to me. Is it at 16 kW burner?

Ashes from the grate should look like coffee grounds and have the same colour.

A weekly cleaning of the grate should be enough if you use good quality pellets (swedish pellets should be really good...)

A good way of adjusting at least 'Pellets high' could be to force the burner to run at 100% (in menu 'Cleaning/power' set 'Minimum power' to 100%) and  adjust 'Pellets high' to just below giving smoke out of the chimney.

'Pellets low' (=10% power) give too little smoke in my system to do the same adjustment.

Instead I have to look at the flames with the lid open as little as possible (air from the open lid will influence the flames). The flames should be much more calm than in a oil burner. Think more on the flames of an open house fireplace..

[didier]

Hello Frank,
sorry for the late answer but because of to busy with other things i could not follow up this forum.
We are a month later and I still have this problem.

Yess, every time I change pellets (i mean other kind off pellets) i do the weight test.

You asked me if it is a 16KW..... good question, I think the salesmen got me by the balls.....
He sold me a 24KW burner and I paid for a 24KW but it also think it is a 16KW because according the weight of pellets and settings i run much better with the settings for the 16KW.....

Problem is how to check and how to be sure it is a 24KW..

The salesmen does not give me any service, he is not capable enough, i called the factory a few times and we got the thing up and running but as mentioned before it is not my job to get the burner finetuned, it should be my installer / salesmen.

Anyway, i depend on my own and i read a lot from the forum and the manual and i must say it sometimes is really confusing because what works for someone else does not always work in another country same installation because of the weather change etc....


You ask me about autocombustion but in my version 4.99 i do not see any auto combustion??
I need to set all of the settings myself.

thanks a nyway for the tips.
regards,
Didier

[xkfc]

Hi Didier

You are right about that it shout be your seller that shout fine tune your nice burner, but I’m sure you will be happy for it, when its’ working, and you can do it your self.

I also have a draft stabilizer, and I had the same problem with the black pellets, I in stet of using 0 in draft I put in 2, and increased the air to 105%. Now its’ working.

I’m not sure the same will work for you, but black unburned pellets = too little air.

All burners are 24kw, so no problem there, just give it more pellets and more air, but only if its necessary, otherwise, keep it as its’ is.

Yours faithfully

Kenneth.

[Frank_rasmussen]

You ask me about autocombustion but in my version 4.99 i do not see any auto combustion??

Maybe my mistake. When I got my Woody version 5 I also got a english manual for "Wood Pellets Burner version 4.99".

Maybe your pellet burner is of the "Scotte"-generation and your displays look like the ones in http://www.scotte.dk/getdoc.asp?id=62&md5hash=80C76E696AD97FF2DF2C2B5BD7D22757 with the big red numbers?

Maybe "Scotte"-versions are called something else outside Denmark...

In the "Scotte" version 4.99 there is no "Auto combustion" in the controler. Instead you find your  "Pellets low steam", "Pellets high stem", "Pellets in pause"(Pause is normally not used, automatic ignition used instead) and "Pellets for Ignition" using a Excel sheet:

http://www.pelletsburner.dk/xls/7%20Beregningsprogram%20Scotte%20100%20og%205.xls

where you enter weigth pellets in 360 seconds, nominal power of burner, draft (if your stabilizer is working draft should be set to 0 er 1). You then enter the calculated values manually in the controler.

In Scotte version 4.99 'Pellets low steam' and 'Pellets high steam' are the main tools of adjusting the burner. I.e. instead of reduceing air in a Scotte version 4.99 you should increase pellets. The effect will be the same.

I don't know how to see the nominal power of the burner in Scotter version 4.99. In my Woody version 6 it is written for some seconds at power up of the controler.

[didier]

Yes, i have the controller with the big red digital screen.

Also i tried to increase pellets but same things happened, the grate gets saturated after one day...
because the grate is saturated it does not burn the pellets any longer as it should and offcourse it starts to give me the BLACK HALF BURNED PELLETS....

Once cleaned, only swipe the grate it is ok for another day....

This problem is occuring the last 6 months and I spoiled many many pellets, i have consumption like 4 bags a day, even when it is not extreme cold, so I have 2 pallets of pellets every month.... i am getting ruined on this thing. costs me 500euro every month.

Sure i do want to learn how this burner works, sure i am learning more and more every day BUT, it became a daily JOB and this was not the purpose of buying a pellet burner installation that costs me 14000 euro in total.......

I check everythng, try other kind of pellets, do the weight test several times, more air, less air, more pellets, less pellets, check stabiliser and so on and so on, i can't get it burning for more then one or 2 days without opening and cleaning.

[Paw]

Kunne det være blæserindstillinger det er galt med. Passer blæsertypen med den på styringen ?

[Frank_rasmussen]

As paw suggests under power up you migth press the Set-button for at least 8 seconds. This will bring you to the factory settings for the blower that you are normally not supposed to change.

In http://www.pelletsburner.dk/datablad/Viden%20om,%20blower.pdf you see the settings for a 'silver aluminum', 'black PVC' and a 'black steel' blower.

The 'Blæs' (=air) ('lav', 'mel', 'høj' = 'low', 'medium', 'high') columns are the ones you should check. The O2-columns are for people with oxygen management.

The theory is that you could have wrong settings for the blower in your system.

Since you write that your allready have tried to change the air I guess you have allready been in this menu?

If this is the case I would return to the factory settings for the blower.

How would you describe the colour of the asches from the grate?

[didier]

Frank,
yes i do know the "hidden menu" and also changed these settings before but never saw this sheet with the settings.

Yannich never gave me higher settings then 18 for high, i tried 20 for high allready.
But because Yannich always told me it was better to change to not change to much in the air settings, it scared me a little to make damage to the system.

When I now look at these factory settings and I go for the steel blades ( i suppose it is steel, could be aluminium also, not really sure about it) the steel factory settings are 22 for high so i never reached the original settings......

I will try tonight with these settings, we are supposed to have a cold winter night around -4° tonight so hopefully i get more results tonight.

Are there any pictures from a steel blades and a aluminium blades blower only that way i could compare the difference from the pictures, it would help more people I guess.

thanks for the settings paper.

[didier]

Frank,
I just translated and i found out that Solv Alu means SILVER ALUMINIUM and SORT STEEL is BLACK STEEL.

My burner has a Silver aluminium HOUSING and BLADES, nothing BLACK in my blower so then I must admit my settings where really out of range even not the half from what it supposed to be.....

Why did Yannich scare me so much not to go high in blowersettings?

The blower settings for 24kw high alu are 35 and yannich only gave me highest settings like 18, thats is half from what it supposed to be

Maybe he gave me these settings because the higher i go the higher i will have to feed pellets and the more higher consumption?
Any way, i am going for the highest settings tonigh, hopefully i don't blow up the house 

i will keep you informed,
thanks.

[Frank_rasmussen]

I think Jannich was tryng to get the air down.

Jannich is 'Mr. Scotte/Woody'. He probably knows about 1000-times more on these burners than I do...

Bad economy in these burnes offen originates from too mush air.

Could you please describe the colour of the asches from the grate?

Almost white og lightgrey ash would normally mean too mush air.

I think the black steel blower http://www.scotte.dk/product.asp?product=304 is the only one being sold to day as an spare part for 30 kW burners.

[didier]

Hello Frank,
thanks for the advice, Yes I do know Yannich is Mr. woody and he helped me out a lot allready by phone.

Because of this forum i did no longer want to trouble Yannich with my calls because he is not responsible for my problem, it is my salesmen who went wrong in not knowing what good service means for customers.

I am trying to solve my problem myself because my salesmen is known at MBE as a nice but not very smart person...

Sofar this explanation,
the ash from the grate is Black and the end is piled after 1 day of burning, if I do not swipe the grate every day the I am lost....from then on i will have more black smoke from the chimney and the grate gets over saturated with the black hal pellets then drop into the ashtray.

RESULT after 3 days my ashtray is plenty with half burned black pellets.....a big loss offcourse in economy...

[Frank_rasmussen]

If adjusting parameters too harshly it is very easy to go directly from one unstable or unwanted state to another. I have offen made this mistake myself 

To get a sense of direction it is better to adjust parameters one by one and do it carefully. So adjust just one parameter gently...wait...observe...make decision...adjust some more on same parameter to see if decision was any good...

For impatient people like me this is a real challenge 

When looking at ash colour please just look at ashes from the grate in the ashtray. And maybe just after the first day after your have cleaned the grate and the grate is functioning reasonably well.

What colour are the ash on boiler walls near the grate?

I don't know the 30 kW boiler (Opop 430: http://www.scotte.dk/getdoc.asp?id=5&md5hash=418289510B1BA918085EA3A9FD280326) but in the smaller Opop 418 boiler peoble offen forget to close all enclosure handles (right english word?) inside the boiler.

These enclosure handles are marked with red in the link http://www.scotte.dk/getdoc.asp?id=5&md5hash=418289510B1BA918085EA3A9FD280326. Have you closed them all?

How big is your chimney horizontally?

Do you live in a windy place with a high chimney draft?

Have you cleaned the pipe from the boiler to the chimney? Chimney swepers in Denmark don't clean this part, and there can be alot of ashes there.

When runing optimally (after a grate cleaning) what power do the controler most offen indicate (red horizontal bar, see page 4 of http://www.scotte.dk/getdoc.asp?id=62&md5hash=80C76E696AD97FF2DF2C2B5BD7D22757 ?

Highest position of red bar: Burner at 66-100 % off full power
Medium position of red bar: Burner at 33-66 % off full power
Lowest position of red bar: Burner at 10-33 % off full power

Does the power fluctuate much?

[didier]

Frank,
after 6 months of bad burning and cleaning people do get impatient 

The ash in the ashtray today is gray to darkgray, the burnergrate seems to be better, slightly saturated but not like before, I swiped it of this noon, may be I should have left if and checked back after 2 days. that's what I am planning now with these new settings.

I did the weight test again this noon and I had 1050gr. I have changed High feed to 46 now.
The settings for the blower are now set just like the settings for Siver Alu blower: 35 for high.
No black smoke from chimney, chimney draft? really I don't have a clue how to measure this and I believe my salesmen does not have the tools for it neither.
So I do live at the coast about 2 miles from the sealine in a house in open surroundings, as always in these area's we have lot's of wind but I don't know about the chimney draft so I have to guess about this.

I do have the Woody boiler and no OPOP so I don't have any of those handles.
http://www.hedestoker.dk/content/Woody%20træpillebrænder/Woody%20version%206.pdf
this looks totally like my installation but I have the 4.99 controller with the LEDS.
I have the Woody 30kw boiler, scotte 24kw burner with 4.99 controller, this needs to heat a old house with around 200m².
I have 11 heating elements in the house, no roof insulation, but that is the first thing we do went it becomes a little better weather and i have double glass windows everywhere.
I also have a ladomatpump and a double watertank, 800l for heating and 150l for warm water.

For example:
it is now 3° outside and the heating is on inside, the elements are hot everywhere, completely hot so there's no airbubles in the heating elements or tubing.
I ask 23° in the house and only reach 22° maximum after heating for about 16hours...this seems not sufficient to me.
Before this we had a huge consumption with a gasboiler (24kw) that is true but we could reach 24° easily in this house with same conditions, but it reached 23° easily and more quickly.
The consumption we had If I do remember good was around 12000m³ of gas pro year (very expensive, i was almost ruined) So this is why we decided to install the pellets system.
I was told it was running very smooth, little ash to clean every 14days and so on, the usual salesmen talk.....It just gave me trouble, cold and lot's of cleaning work and I am stuck with it myself to have the problem solved...

I wonder also if I needed that buffer tank from 800l, to me it is only another 800l to heat up before i get any warmth into my heating elements.
The burner runs about 18hours a day and comsumes 60kg a day, it becomes expensive also and does not heat up the house as it should be like the gasboiler did before..

Anyway i plan to get the salesmen to court because i am almost used up with this boiler system and my yard looks like a coalmine with all those ashes and half burned pellets everywhere around the yard.

thanks,
Didier